Position:Home>Poetry> Have you discovered anything new during 4.1.1. of Basics of English Studies (oth
Question: Have you discovered anything new during 4!.1!.1!. of Basics of English Studies (other than Teacher is mean)!?
4!.1!.1!. Outward Indications (Cont!.)
It is difficult to answer the question ‘What is Poetry!?’ conclusively, though most people are more or less able to recognize poetry when they see it!. One recent critic has suggested the following criteria in answer to the question ‘What is Poetry!?’ (Muller-Zettelmann 2000: 73-156):
Poetic texts have a tendency to
1!. Relative brevity (with some notable exceptions)
2!. Dense expression
3!. Express subjectivity more than other tests
4!. Display a musical or songlike quality
5!. Be structurally and phonologically overstructured
6!. Be syntactically and morphologically overstructured
7!. Aesthetic self-referentiality (which means that they draw attention to themselves as [an] art form both through the form in which they are written and through explicit references to the writing of poetry)
With all the difficulties of defining poetry it is worth remembering that poetry, especially in the form of song, is one of the oldest forms of artistic expression, much older than prose, and that it seems to answer — or to originate in — a human impulse that reaches for expression in joy, grief, doubt, hope, loneliness, and much more!.
(End of this section)
Www@QuestionHome@Com
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker:
First, a few words about the seven points: I disagree on "relative brevity", because this is mainly a modern, or maybe contemporary idea!. Epic poetry is not brief, and used to be considered the highest form!. And "self-referentiality" may also be modern!. I'll have to think about it!
For the rest, it is important to think that learning is never over!. Some people think they are knowledgeable and therefore have a sort of superiority over the others!. To me, the basis of teaching is that you are so grateful for the knowledge others have granted you that you want others to have it too!.
Teaching must be done with simplicity and the respect of others' lack of knowledge!. To me, anything can be taught, even if it is very difficult, as long as you teach it well!. But maybe this was not your question!?
So, yes, this book is certainly very useful!. People who use big words without knowing their exact meaning should read it!. You know, like "fourteener" or "interspersed"!? Moi, I don't know, I'm just a foreigner, ha ha ha! Www@QuestionHome@Com
In truth, I haven't had an opportunity to read the pages you mention; I've been working long hours!. However, your list of seven components of poetic structure holds no surprises for me!. You see, I teach reasonably sophisticated literature and writing workshops for secondary students and adults (in addition to my full-time employment), and because of this I have studied all of these components deeply; I've read standard books of rhetoric and poetics (indeed, I've taught Aristotle's "Poetics" as a precursor to understanding Greek tragedy)!. And of course, I've read thousands of poems, all of which has served to inform my understanding and shape my tastes!. I fully appreciate and hopefully (for my students' sake as well as my own!) understand all of these things already!. Indeed, I have worked to improve my own application of these principles and have had a moderate degree of success!. I would like to read what you have alluded to, and would gladly do so if you could append the link for those of us entering the discussion as of this late date!. I am always interested in learning, and my message is a genuine one; it is to be considered as such!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
I got an A in dense expression!. That's good right!?
Story time: A designer who works for my father rejected submitted lab dips ( dyed sewing thread) for the 8th time saying "we" have not reached the color of black he desires!. I'm like WTF !Www@QuestionHome@Com
I have downloaded the 36 pages in question!. I find reading the sections and absorbing them in the way you present much nicer!. I can sip from the cup one small section at a time!. Thank you!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
It all makes me wonder: where did some of the first great poets gain their knowledge!? The womb!?Www@QuestionHome@Com
Every color has a shade
and many different hues!.
What bugs me most
are the ones we never use!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
Before literacy, poetry in the form of song was the way tradition and knowledge was passed from generation to generation!. Oral tradition still exists in many cultures!. Prayers are still chanted and sung!.
All of the oral expression is metered, primarily to the heartbeat (iambic verse)!. Many of the poets on this site have, even today, applauded their peers who advocate for so-called 'free-verse!.' They are really speaking of 'blank verse,' which leaves my mind a blank!. To one poet who said essentially, 'let the words flow,' I responded, that without language and form the poetry will flow right off the page into oblivion!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
I learned more about the questions to ask of a poem, as well as broadening my understanding of form and meaning!. In my reading I learned more about schemes and tropes, and their various levels!. You've inspired me to further deepen my understanding!.
[I read Aristotle so long ago, I'd almost forgotten the elements he described in the Poetics!. At the time I was reading it at four different levels at once, in beginning Greek, in a required general survey course in Humanities, in an introduction to Philosophy, and in a senior level seminar in Aristotle!. Typical overachiever, finishing off a Philosophy major in two years!.]Www@QuestionHome@Com
The Teacher is not mean,but he chooses very challenging reference material that causes division of opinion!.
To Quote Elaine: "There is no copyright on words, but if you use another person's words, even blended with your own, you should attribute -- quote the sources -- title and person who wrote the poem or lyrics!. "I raise my glass to you," too, Ma!. (Ma, in Yahoo Answers: "Is it okay to use another's words blended with your own")!?" So as the "one poet who said essentially, 'let the words flow,' " to whom she is referring from my own question post, I can heartily agree with all this is saying!.
However, the "overstructured" part puzzles me a little!. Some are saying "you need structure" but this is saying a poem is identified as being "Overstructured"!. I say huh!?
Does this critic oppose structuring and support free form style!?
As a poet I wish to be original and not a clone, if it means "writing outside the square" then so be it!. That is what I have learned from the pages I have read!. All very interesting!.!.!.!.thanks for asking!.
Www@QuestionHome@Com