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Question: The Sublime compared across 3 ancient cultures!?
ive been having a bad few months so i havent been keeping up with my work very well!.!.!.

im supposed to give a powerpoint tommorrow that explains something about the sublime in regards to 3 ancient cultures!. i was kindof leaning towards saying how different groups interpreted what was sublime and what was not!. ive got Longinus' (greek) opinion (100 AD) but thats it for ancients!. then ive got the german guy Schopenhauer but he's like mid 1700's!. then i guess i could talk about edmund burk but he's also 1700's!. my teacher has defined "ancient" as earlier that 1600!. im not looking for anything great just something that will let me survive the presentation!. thanks!.

im in grade 12 if that helps any!.Www@QuestionHome@Com


Best Answer - Chosen by Asker:
The classic concept of the sublime comes from Immanuel Kant (German late 1700's)!. I'm ripping straight from wikipedia here, so do not copy this verbatim!.

"In the chapter "Analytic of the Sublime" Kant identifies the sublime as an aesthetic quality which, like beauty, is subjective, but unlike beauty refers to an indeterminate relationship between the faculties of the imagination and of reason, and shares the character of moral judgments in the use of reason!."

It is important to note that Kant ties aesthetics (the study of nature, beauty and perception!.!.!.one of the five major branches of philosophy) to the sublime!. For Kant, beauty, though subjective, involves some level of reasoning!. The relationship to the beautiful object is determined by judgment (you react to an inanimate thing with like, love, dislike, outrage, etc!.)!. And everyone's judgment is different!. So it seems that beauty could not be universal, but Kant finds a way to reverse this!. First, judgment is a determined quality!. Judgment is determined by your position in life (where and when you live!.!.!. your experiences!. So the same object that may be revered by Kant, you may find terrible!. Still, the relationship to that object is the same!. So it is not what determines beauty (and then there is no universal criteria of judgment), but the sheer fact that everyone goes through determining beauty!.!.!.this is a common sense!. It is universal!. Still beauty is determined!.

The sublime is undetermined, or indeterminate!. It sits between imagination and reason!. So you see a painting right now, which you determine to be beautiful based on your here-and-now experience!. This is reason!. But a painting that inspires the sublime transcends reason!. You must grasp it with your imagination as well!. This is because none of your experiences prepare you for it!. But you can't simply discard reason either!. So sublime beauty bounces back and forth between these in a way that you will never fully resolve!. This is how we perceive the sublime!.



You can also talk about the Zen koan in feudal Japan ("ancient"), which sort of spins Kant on its head!.

Kant's conception is very cerebral!. It first involves the head with reason!. Only then does the sublime leads to something beyond the brain's capacity (to the place between reason and imagination) to something maybe a little more physical!.

Zen Buddhists reject this duality between mind and body!. They think that anytime the mind separates from bodily sensation, then the mind is playing its tricks on you!. How could the mind have formed without the sensory input of the body!? How could the body sense the world without a mind to organize it!?

Too often, reason is set apart in the head!. Zen folk are mindful that this is probably trickery or self-deception!. So they attempt understand the world more intuitively and spontaneously!.

But it's not easy to see the world apart from its barriers!. Sometimes the mind must be bent against itself to break its own habits!. This is why a branch of Zen (Rinzai) developed the koan!. Essentially the more you think about the koan, the more nonsensical it becomes!. It is thus best not to apply Kant's common sense to statements that are meant to shock one into enlightenment, such as, "Without thinking of good or evil, show me your original face before your mother and father were born!."

Such a statement requires an easing of the mind, which is one reason why Zen Buddhists meditate!.

Kant may agree that such a statement goes between reason and imagination, and thus it qualifies as sublime!. But he would not see that such a statement is understood using more than the mind!. Kant shows that experience - the self within space and time - is the first step to perceiving the sublime!. Zen Buddhists believe that this "self" gets in the way of seeing the sublime!. In fact they believe that the mind creates this self in space and time as a way of preventing true perceptions!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

It took me 10 minutes to figure out that "the sublime" means elevated rhetoric!. If you want to examine different schools of rhetoric, try Cicero, and maybe compare/contrast with the Hebrew Bible (both of which are mentioned by Pseudo-Longinus apparently!.)

I thought it was a much harder question you were asking until I hit wikipedia!. Even if your teacher said to avoid wikipedia, you can check it out to understand your topic and for reference web sites, and take it from there!.

I usually HATE kids asking for homework help, but this one is the hardest homework question I have ever heard in here!.

Good Luck!.Www@QuestionHome@Com