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Question: Can reality EVER exist!? Glaring holes in my theory!?
OK, think about this:

There are two people in a lift halfway up/down a lift shaft!. They have been in that lift forever and it has never moved!. they are alone in there!.
For them, the little metal box is EVERYTHING !.!.!. there is nothing else because they have never known anyone else !.!.!.that is the entirety of the world, and because there are two of them, they have been able to discuss it (let's assume they know how to speak, communicate etc) and they both know that what they see is what the other sees also!. so for them, the floor of the lift is the bottom of EVERYTHING, the ceiling is the top of EVERYTHING etc!. Yet WE know that actually, they are in a lift, and that what they think is the bottom of everything is actually not, but instead there is something much further down which is the bottom, and that is the bottom of the lift shaft itself!. But who are we to say that we have authority over their reality, because for them, that little box is all they haWww@QuestionHome@Com


Best Answer - Chosen by Asker:
How pragmatic!.!.!. True perception is reality!. And perception is limited by it's ability to sense and perceive!.

And if these two subjects in the iron box were to conceive of things outside of the box, then there conclusions would only be based on their conjecture and limited experience!.

This is similar to the way that philosophers have argued semantically about the nature of reality!. Sure we can base answers on the conclusions we arrive at according to our individual empirical history!. However, reaching conclusions without more tangible evidence is simply idolatry and semantic word play rationality!.

Further, scientific method does take a step closer evidentiary proofs!. One big aspect of scientific method is the focus on empiricism and, more importantly, the willingness of the methodology to disprove!. But science itself doesn't say anything, People say things!.

Openness to the possibility of one's own wrongness takes one closer to the realizing that things cannot be absolutely proven!.

However, there is no way to absolutely prove existence outside of oneself!. Moreover, the only thing that can absolutely be proven to an individual is that one's own perspective, in some manner, exists!. And one, in the interest of fairness (if there is such a thing), must be open to the possibilty that solipsism may be an actuality and not just a neurotic worry!.

But to get back to the original question, "Can reality ever exist!?" I will try my best to answer the question because I am not exactly sure as to how your are defining reality!. Is reality perception or actuality!? In your example the characters have a limited view of their universe!. However, your example does also presuppose that there is something outside the walls of their perception!. And even though they cannot see what lies beyond their confines, there is still something, an aspect of reality unknown to them, out there!. In your example it seems that reality does in fact exist beyond perception, there is just no pragmatic empirical evidence to the characters!.

But I hate to beat up examples!. Many time examples are just put in place as illustrations to a point, while not being the actual point!. Don't even get me started about my frustration of the arguments I've heard against Paley's Watch!. Analogies are not always actualities!.

So!.!.!. The existence of reality can never be disproven!. And, while it does take a leap of faith from the observer, solipsism is also impossible to prove or disprove from the individual perspective!. However, limits in perception do not conclude that reality does not exist!. Simply for the very fact that perception is limited!. And undoubtedly, something does exist since there is an observer!.

But that's just my perspective!. Thanks for the brain teaser!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

I would argue that we have just as much authority over their box as God does over ours, ie the universe!.

They have as much authority over their own box as we do of our own!.

Your question isnt really about existence, but about our authority over it and knowledge about it!?Www@QuestionHome@Com

Very interesting!.!.!.!.but if you're going to get into that, then we must question our reality as we know it as well!.!.!.who's to say our "reality" is reality!? Its just like when people thought the world was flat, or that the Earth was the center of the solar system!. Everything we know could be FICTION!!! Dun dun dun!.!.!.!.!.haha ; )Www@QuestionHome@Com

And then if I were to shake the box violently when they did something I didn't like, or reward them when they did something that pleased me, wouldn't they consider me 'god'!. But I'm really not a god, that would just be their perception from inside the box!.

Now let's say the lift and I are part of a whole building that I have been in forever!. I know nothing outside of or beyond the building!. Someone or something could influence the building the way that I influence the lift, and I might regard that thing as 'god', but maybe it's just some external force playing games with me the way i was playing games with or two friends in the lift!.

And what if that building were part of a city in which my 'god' lives!. He/she has never been out of this city and only knows what is in the city!. Some external force could influence the city!.!.!.etc, etc!.

You could go on forever like this with no REAL way to prove any of it!. To those people in the lift, am I real!? How do you know!? How do they know!? Reality is what is in front of you, what you can see, touch, taste, etc!.Www@QuestionHome@Com