Position:Home>Philosophy> Regarding "chaos" and "cosmos," or "order," Curtis
Question: Regarding "chaos" and "cosmos," or "order," Curtis Edward Clark and Morpheus disagreed, but was Clark right!?
Morpheus said:
"I would say that both order & chaos exist naturally!. Even if he [Clark] tries to make the case that chaos is man-made, it must have a component in nature!.
"Man cannot create chaos from nothing!."
Clark says chaos does not come from nothing, but that it is predicated of only type of "being," and that is a living being!. Creatures such as ants and spiders seem to be as orderly as nature will allow; but give a spider LSD and he won't spin a good web!. Give chemical acid to limestone and it will follow the laws of nature!. A spider on LSD can only disregard order, it cannot disregard nature!. What it does while under the influence of LSD is still nature!.
But man does not need LSD or any other substance to create chaos!. He can do it by disregarding reason, and that is a choice!. The spider cannot choose to disregard its own nature and spin a bad web!.
Man has the choice; nothing in nature has such power of choice, and nothing innanimate has any choice at all!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker:
WOW AND WOW, AGAIN!!!
I'm with Mr!. Clark, for sure!!
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I'm not sure what is meant by "in nature"!. I think chimps can make choices!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
A spider cant choose!? How do you know!? Can you read a spiders mind!? Tear down a spiders web repeatedly !. the ones he replaces them with will be increasingly less orderly!.
I have seen Ducks disregard their own nature to fly south for the winter!. It is possible there are more intelligent species on earth than man!. Even ants and bees live in a city, support a community environment, and appear to have govt!. The things they do may be as intelligent or even more intelligent than man!. Assuming animals cant choose is mans own arrogance!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
Who's to say a spider cannot choose to disregard its own nature and spin a bad web!. Just because it has not been witnessed doesn't mean it can't be done!.
Spiders very well could have the choice to act in that manner, but always choose to make an orderly web because it's whats in their best interest for survival, not because they're trying buck the system!. Spiders want to survive and therefore will act in a way that will most likely ensure their survival!.
Clark is saying that nature is order and man from that creates chaos, which is true, but he's assuming that nature is the first step > therefore order is first!.
But what if nothing was first!? But nothing wasn't first because we have something now and you can't have something from nothing so we know that there was always something!. What if that something wasn't order, it was chaos, and from that chaos order was formed, and that order is what we see now as nature!.
If that's the case then order came from chaos and order left in it's current state will be order can be manipulated/reverted (as evidenced by man) into chaos, but just because other forms of life haven't manipulated/reverted order into chaos doesn't mean it can't be done!.
Edit: You said "The closer a creature is to "bare-bones instinct," as opposed to having a thinking process like a dog or a whale or a primate, the less choice it has to act against its own nature!."
It still has the choice, but to the spider the choice is simple!. I can think of a perfectly good reason to drown myself in the river because I understand more than a spider!. A spider doesn't understand that there could possibly be a good reason to drown oneself in the river, so to it the choice is simple, and there is no reason to choose the other!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
You are confusing two different things!. Chaos exists naturally!. The inventor of chaos theory passed away last week!. Look at the movement of water or smoke!. Underlying the chaos is order, cause!.
When it comes to humans, 'chaos' exists because we have free will to a degree!. The kind of chaos you allude to comes from man disregarding reason!. At the root of that is Pride, we want to be God!. We can't sing the song right because we feel the need to introduce variations, as in Tolkien's creation story found in the Silmarillion!.!.Www@QuestionHome@Com