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Question: Can a German ever be proud of his WW2 military service!?
In my father's and grandfather's generation, their war service was the source of a good deal of personal and family pride!. I know this is true of the US and UK from experience, and I am sure it is also true of the former USSR!.
I know that the German government co-opted the army into some appalling atrocities!. also I know the German army committed continual atrocities on the Eastern Front, and some on the Western front too!. All armies commit atrocities, I know, but my impression is that for people from an educated, civilised background (which a lot of the Red army soldiers were not) they committed more than the others!.
BUT NEVERTHELESS !.!.!. a lot of a German soldier's war service must have consisted of the same sort of acts of courage and self-sacrifice, and support of his comrades that were done in any of the allied armies!.
also, becauseof the resistance of the German army, the border between East and West after 1945 stood a good deal farther east of what it would otherwise have been!. So to what extent can/could he be proud of them!?
Answers from Germans welcome!.!.!. Www@QuestionHome@Com


Best Answer - Chosen by Asker:
I think you gave the answer yourself!. If a soldier didn't commit crimes of war, perhaps didn't participate in the war when Germany was expanding, but instead was defending his home as Germany was collapsing, if a soldier helped his friends, or made difficult decisions or acted courageously to protect civilians, I think he could feel proud!.

Have I ever met a German WW2 soldier who was proud!? No!. I haven't even heard of one!. It's easier to be proud when you have one!. Being a proud loser is much harder!. National pride is a very touchy issue in Germany!. Until recently, perhaps until the 2006 soccer world cup, you couldn't fly a German flag in your front yard, or you'd be suspected to be a Neo-Nazi!.

I think General Weidling, the last commander of the Berlin defense area, could have been proud!. While many other commanding officers quarreled what to do after Hitler had committed suicide, he offered the unconditional surrender of Berlin to Russian general Chuikov, to save lives on both sides!. When discussing the surrender, he said: "I think that every unnecessary death is a crime !. !. !. madness!." Weidling died a prisoner of war!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

Of course they can!. In North Africa for example, both sides seem to have fought honourably with a lot of respect for the other!. Any soldier who didn't get involved in, or attempted to stop attrocities being committed can also be proud of themselves!. They fought for a bad cause, but most didn't know at the time thanks to Nazi propaganda, so many were just like soldiers in other armies!. As for Russian being further East, that too was a good thing, as under Stalin communist Russia was in many ways as bad as the Nazi regime!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

During WWII,not all Germans embraced the Nazi belief that they were descendants of the Aryan race!. Some resited Hitler (not just the Jews) and ended up in the concentration camps or were executed on the spot!. Even the Army and Luftwaffe didn't like Hitler and his cronies Himmler,and Goerring because these guys weren't trained strategists!.
Yet the Nazis were in power and the military heirarchy had to go along to an extent for the good of the nation!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

why not!. he still fought for his country even if he was german!. he should be proud of what hes done besides!.!.!.!.!.!.!.!.!.!. he was only following orders given to him by his superiors, its the same for us lot, we are given an order to do something and we do it!. its not his fault that hitler was a bad man!

let him be proud of doing what he did and be proud of being german!Www@QuestionHome@Com

It depends why he fought!. A lot of Germans were forced to fight, but then there were some that would join!. If I fought for the reasons Hitler had, he himself may be proud of it!. But others would be ashamed if their family member fought for the reasons Hitler thought and wanted world power!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

I believe that if a german or officer of German Army didn't have any bad extremity, and faught brave for his country and respected his opponents (especially the non-combatant population) and behaved civilised, then yes, he must be proud!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

Of course, most Germans can be proud of their WW2 Service, remember they were forced to fight!.

Every Military Force in the World commit atrocities, it is only the losing forces that are convicted of War Crimes!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

THERE IS NOTHING THAT THE GERMANS CAN BE PROUD OF,THEY STARTED THE WARS AND THEIR ATTITUDE TOWARDS ANYTHING NOT GERMAN WAS APPALLING,I DONT CARE HOW BRAVE SOME OF THEM MIGHT HAVE BEEN ,THEY TOOK BOTH MY GRANDFATHER AND MY FATHERS LIFE ,I WILL NEVER FORGIVE THEM OR FORGET,THEY WERE THE LOWEST OF THE LOW,AND THEIR TYPICAL RESPONSE WAS"I WAS ONLY FOLLOWING ORDERS"DONT LET THEM EVER FORGET THE ATROCITIES THAT THEY CAUSED TO MANY NATIONS OF THE WORLD,Www@QuestionHome@Com

Don't mention the war!.You mentioned it that time but I think you got away with it!.How many Germans against Hitler lived to see the outbreak of war!?Americans drew the demarcation lines Churchill wanted to make them as far east as Moscow!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

I am pretty sure a german can be proud!. At that time, the Germans thought they were right!. They were basically brainwashed by the German Goverment!. They were in a deep depression and Hitler was the man that got them through it!. Www@QuestionHome@Com

Yes, of course they can!. If they didn't participate in the war crimes!. I might even cut those people a bit of slack if they were fighting to keep the "rape and murder crazy" Soviets out of their land!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

It was the SS that was the bad guys, the regular army Officers were from mostly WW1 era that led them!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

I believe that military service for one's country is worthy of pride and respect no matter what side one fights on!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

Of course they can!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

Men Against Fire!.

These studies investigated the traditional assumptions about what motivates soldiers to fight, including patriotism, ideology, religion, ideals of duty and honor and manhood, a quest for glory and adventure, leadership, training and discipline, and coercion!. They found that while some or all of these factors, either alone or in combination, may have been important for some soldiers, for most, the key factor was what the experts called "primary group cohesion," a kind of jargon phase!. What does it mean!? The soldier's primary group consists of his comrades in the squad or the platoon or the gun crew bonded by the common danger they face in battle!. They become literally a band of brothers whose mutual dependence and mutual support in combat create the cohesion necessary to function as a fighting unit!.

The survival of each member of the group depends on the others doing their jobs!. The survival of the group depends on the steadiness of each individual, so does their individual and collective self-respect!. If any of them falters, is paralyzed by fear, runs away, or, to use a Korean war phrase, bugs out, or even to use a Civil War phrase, skedaddles or skulks, that person not only endangers his own and the others' survival, he also courts the contempt and ostracism of his comrades!. He loses face!. He loses self-respect as a man!. In other words, these studies found that the compulsion of the peer group is a greater force than coercion by officers or by the state!.

Or as S!. L!. A!. Marshall in Men Against Fire responds to his own rhetorical question: "No man wants to die!. What induces him to risk his life bravely!?" It's not belief in the cause!. When the chips are down, "the man fights to help the man next to him!. Men do not fight for a cause, but because they do not want to let their comrades down!."

a New York veteran of two years responded to his sister's question!. She had asked him: "aren't you scared when you go into combat!? Don't you want to run away!?" And he replied to her: "you ask me if the thought of death does not alarm me!. I will say I do not wish to die, but I have too much honor, too much courage to hold back while others are going forward!." I, myself, "am as big a coward as any could be," that is, if I were alone!. "But give me the bullet before the coward when all my friends and companions are going forward!."

So I, as a Viet Nam combat veteran would say be proud of the soldiers in your family!.


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Most German servicemen, like their British and American counterparts, were just doing a job!. Of course there were some who behaved ignobly (that's human nature) Late in WW2 my parents (who served in the RAF and WAAF) befriended a German POW (named Franz) who became their gardener!. My parents tell me that he was just an ordinary man fulfilling his military obligations (most countries at that time had a draft) After Franz was repatriated to Germany he and my parents remained friends until they died!.

In war, atrocities are committed on all sides, but generally there is no reason for any soldier (or sailor or airman) to be ashamed of his service to his country!. Www@QuestionHome@Com

I would wonder whether you are correct as to the extent of German soldiers committing atrocities!. Like every war, there were atrocities on both sides!. But I suspect that they were the exception rather than the rule!. I am sure that many Germans have war records to be proud of, however they ended up fighting for their country!. After all, weren't the causes of WWII complex and included the previous ruination and humiliation of Germany and her allies after WWI!? Didn't many Germans believe they were only trying to restore Germany's honour!? Weren't many fooled or misled by the Nazis, wanting to believe that Hitler was leading them back to their natural place in the world 'order'!?
Interesting question!.Www@QuestionHome@Com