Where the British right to deny Hitler his Empire in the east of Europe when they had enjoyed over 200 years of a British Empire which covered 1/3 of the planet!?Www@QuestionHome@Com
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Position:Home>History> Unfair to Hitler?Question: Unfair to Hitler!? Where the British right to deny Hitler his Empire in the east of Europe when they had enjoyed over 200 years of a British Empire which covered 1/3 of the planet!?Www@QuestionHome@Com
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker: It also makes a difference that British empire-building mostly took place in the 16th to 19th Centuries, while Hitler tried it in the 20th Century!. Obviously our moral standards adapt as our political organization becomes more sophisticated!. Condemning colonial nations during the age of colonialism is a bit like condemning medieval countries for being feudal monarchies rather than parliamentary democracies!. It's not like there was a real political alternative at the time!. Independent nation states are a very recent historical phenomenon, and empires were the norm prior to the 20th Century!. The situation with Hitler was different!. By the mid-20th Century any civilized person understood that war and genocide were bad, and there were alternative ways to conduct international relations!. Mechanisms such as the League of Nations were created precisely for that purpose, but they were undermined by Hitler!. British opposition to Hitler was based more on traditional balance of power considerations rather than moral ones!. But as it turned out, resisting Hitler was even more right than people realised at the time!.Www@QuestionHome@Com Yes, the British have always fought to prevent one power from becoming too strong a power in Europe!. It made good sense then, and it still does today!. The British were not alone, as they had their French allies, too!. If the shoe were on the proverbial other foot, would you be asking if it were unfair to Churchill (or whomever the leader of Britain was at the time)!? Please stop denying the Holocaust, and learn History!. Once Hitler and the Nazis gained power, they began to put their political opponents (the SPD and the KPD) into labour camps, affectionately known as concentration camps!. From 1933 - 1939, as Elizabeth has so kindly pointed out, the Holocaust was already functioning!. "After the Reichstag fire of 27 February 1933, over 10,000 KPD members or supporters were immediately arrested before the party was officially banned!. By the end of 1933 over 130,000 had been arrested and thrown into concentration camps and 2,500 murdered!. Between 1933 and 1945 more than 3 million Germans had been in concentration camps or prison for political reasons; tens of thousands were executed or died from mistreatment!." Unfair to Hitler!? No!. Unfair to the Holocaust victims!. Yes!.Www@QuestionHome@Com if we ignore all the ethical considerations of the holocaust and all the rest of it, the answer is still yes!. whether something is unfair or not in international relations is an irrelevant concept, all nations do what they judge they will do best from doing, it is that simple!. britain judged that it was in its interests to prevent german homogeniety in continental europe!. britains position of international pre-eminence since napoleon, which had in many respects ended after WWI, had been based on the maintenance of a balance of power on the continent, combined with british mastery of the seas!. a continental european superpower would threaten britains position in the world, supplanting it in terms of world trade potentially!. anyway, past wrongs of a nation do not mean that it loses the right to criticise other nations acting similarly!. neil- incidentally it is a common misconception that the british invented the concentration camp, they did not!. spainish use of them in cube pre-dates the boer war!.Www@QuestionHome@Com The Germans also built a colonial empire in Africa and the Pacific, they just didn't do a very good job of holding on to it and started late so they got scraps!. Colonial era empire building and 20th total war in Europe are two very different things!. PS The plans for the "Final Solution" were already on the drawing board and the liquidation of Hitler's politcal opponents and assorted other "undesirables" such as the mentally ill were already well under way by 1939, so the Holocaust IS a relevant argument!.Www@QuestionHome@Com History is written by the winners!. The native American genocide, which was participated in by the Spanish, Portuguese, British, French, and later the Americans gets very little attention!. Even the more recent south-east Asian genocides are practically forgotten compared to the Holocaust!. Hitler was not a benevolent ruler by any means, but many megomaniacal leaders in the past are remembered as heroes!. It all depends on what they ultimately achieved!.Www@QuestionHome@Com Propaganda throught the ages has portrayed hitler as a ruthless and harsh dictator which is backed up with the striking images of him as a leader in the propaganda posters and films the nazis used, and ofcourse the holocaust made him extremely unpopular!. however much evidence today seems to suggest that hitler was not the only one responsible for the radicalisation of the third reich the nazi ministers and some of the german people were also to share the blame however it is ultimatley hitler that has been portrayed as the source of all evil!. unfair!? in light of the evidence yes it was too some extent im not sayin they were wrong to stop him no, but they were hypocritical indeed, with hindsight you can see that hitler was only taking back territory germnay had lost during the treaty of versailles (before war broke out) it was not to EXPAND germanys empire but to regain it!. and britian with its empire stretching over the world did not want competition therfore stopped him!. if hitler hadnt been responsible for the holocaust, i think we would see things in a different light!.Www@QuestionHome@Com On the whole, yes!. It was pretty clear even in 1939 that Hitler was a demagogue and something of a megalomaniac, so allowing him untrammeled power was never going to be a good idea!. The British Empire did commit various atrocities but a German expansion into the East in search of lebensraum was never going to be anything but a horrendous bloodbath!. The Slavic races were never going to just shrug their shoulders and allow themselves to be reduced to helots by the alleged Master Race!.Www@QuestionHome@Com Interesting question-- You are certainly right that many countries have attempted to create empires during different historical times!. However, during the time of the English empire, empire meant a place that was run by English speaking people and sent a significant portion of it's natural resources to the motherland (England in this case)!. Deaths were involved, but it was mostly creating international vassals!. Nazi Germany engaged in ethnic cleansing, that is, systematically killing (often after torturing) people based on their race, religion, sexual orientation, and ability or marital status!. Depending where you get your numbers, Hitler's people ended between 5million and 8million civilian lives (not including soldiers)!. Additionally, tens of millions of lives were lost during the war on all sides, soldiers and civilians included!. This "Final Solution" actually started in 1939 which coincides with your timeline!. About one million Jews were exterminated before 1942 which is when the Wannsee conference met to discuss using Jews for labor to rebuild parts of the new German empire, opting instead to continue to exterminate them!. Wikipedia has a good breakdown!.Www@QuestionHome@Com Actually, the British appeased Hitler by allowing him to expand into new territories that they had committed to defend!. The British fight against the Nazis was not based on ideology or principle!. It was an existential battle of life or death!. They were bombarded from the air for months, but did not collapse, as did most of the other countries in Europe!.Www@QuestionHome@Com Where did you get the idea the Holocaust started after 1939!? It started much earlier than that!. 1933 March 22, 1933 - Nazis open Dachau concentration camp near Munich, to be followed by Buchenwald near Weimar in central Germany, Sachsenhausen near Berlin in northern Germany, and Ravensbrück for women!. April 1, 1933 - Nazis stage boycott of Jewish shops and businesses!. April 11, 1933 - Nazis issue a decree defining a non-Aryan as "anyone descended from non-Aryan, especially Jewish, parents or grandparents!. One parent or grandparent classifies the descendant as non-Aryan!.!.!.especially if one parent or grandparent was of the Jewish faith!." July 14, 1933 - Nazi Party is declared the only legal party in Germany; also, Nazis pass Law to strip Jewish immigrants from Poland of their German citizenship!. In Sept - Nazis establish Reich Chamber of Culture, then exclude Jews from the Arts!. Sept 29, 1933 - Nazis prohibit Jews from owning land!. Oct 4, 1933 - Jews are prohibited from being newspaper editors!. 1934 Jan 24, 1934 - Jews are banned from the German Labor Front!. May 17, 1934 - Jews not allowed national health insurance!. July 22, 1934 - Jews are prohibited from getting legal qualifications!. 1935 May 21, 1935 - Nazis ban Jews from serving in the military!. Sept 15, 1935 - Nuremberg Race Laws against Jews decreed!.Www@QuestionHome@Com First of all Coffee is wrong, the first concentration camp was developed by the British in the Boer war with horrendous loss of life!. However comparing Hitlers expansion to the east with the British empire is silly!. Although today what Britain did would be considered illegal, at the time most of the countries Britain took over where considered fair game, indeed we had to fight other European countries for control (France for North America, the Dutch for southern Africa etc) Germany's problem was that they never became a homogeneous nation until late in the 20th century and had to be content with the scraps other countries did not want!. Hitler's attempt at empire building were different, he wanted to oust the local populations (through murder if necessary) to transplant them with Germanic peoples!. Britain only ever ran countries for profit, (remember India was a private company until late Victorian times) and as long as they made money and the population was no trouble, they allowed the populations to do as they pleased!.Www@QuestionHome@Com Yes!. And the British Empire did not set up concentration camps or gas chambers!. They did not experiment on children!. Nor did they try to exterminate entire religious groups or nations!. That is not to say that the British Empire was entirely saintly - yes there was a degree of exploitation but most people were left better than they were before the British arrived!.Www@QuestionHome@Com The English were too giving as far as Hitler and his 3rd Reich were concerned!. They gave him Austria, Checkoslovakia and Poland without lifting a finger to stop him!. Were it not for Hitler's invasion of France, he would have only to dealt with Russia!. It wasn't until the Nazis attacked England and France directly that Churchill even made a move!. Nobody wanted war!. Everybody feared a repeat of World War II, so they all turned their backs and pretended it wasn't happening!.Www@QuestionHome@Com Theseus - Churchill hated communism, but when informed that Hitler had invaded Russia, he said that if the Devil himself were fighting Hitler, he would support him [or words to that effect]!. Had Britain not helped Russia against Germany, the Germans would have had the strategic advantages of Russian wheat and oil, which would have been to Britain's detriment!.Www@QuestionHome@Com I think your point is fair, although it is doubtful most people will give such thought more than a nanosecond because we have all been indoctrinated since our youth!. The fact is, the British are the consummate hypocrites!. They declare war on Germany for attacking Poland but ALLIED themselves with murderous Stalin, who attacks Finland, Romania, and the Baltic states!. Furthermore, England had perfected the art of stealing territory from France, Spain, The Netherlands, and assorted local peoples for several centuries, as well as playing "Let's Balance the Power" so as to turn one group of people over against another, creating further hostility!. There are no good or evil nations!. All nations act in their own self interest, but the ones that deserve the most censure are the ones that claim they are the only good one!.Www@QuestionHome@Com Germany came to the Empire game too late!. There was a certain hypocrisy in the Imperialist powers fighting wannabe imperialist powers, but that was irrelevant to the war!. In any case, the war was not just about the rights of expansionist powers, there were many reasons to fight Hitler!.Www@QuestionHome@Com i dont think unfair and hitler can come in the same sentence unless was it unfair that hitler was born!? Then the answer would be yes!. He was a disgusting man, who killed innocent people so he doesnt deserve anything, let alone someone to be fair to him!.Www@QuestionHome@Com Well, - let's put it THIS way! If, - when he was BORN, (April, 1889), - his MOTHER had realised, the kind of MONSTER, she had given BIRTH to, - I think SHE would have done the BEST thing she COULD, for humanity, - by STRANGLING HIM, at BIRTH!Www@QuestionHome@Com Aww, bless him, the poor man!. He didn't mean to gas six million people!. He was just misunderstood!. Using the wrongs of British Imperialism as an argument for appeasing Hitler is pathetic!.Www@QuestionHome@Com It is easier to see others mistakes than you own!. Besides, I don't think Britain did a bang-up job denying Hilter his Empire!. They were pretty much under siege until Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and the US got involved!.Www@QuestionHome@Com Obviously we were right to stop him taking over Europe, but your other point is a fair one - we were rather hypocritical in condemning his actions and not our own!.Www@QuestionHome@Com hitler was a evil person, how can anyone be unfair to him, after what he did to all those innocent people! i hope hes getting royally buggered in hell, as i type this!!Www@QuestionHome@Com It wasn't just about the empire though was it!. The mass genocide might have had something to do with itWww@QuestionHome@Com the Brits educated and civilised the world!.!.!.!.cream tea anyone!? i completely agree with robo!.Www@QuestionHome@Com what a load of twaddle!.!.!.!.!.!.!.!.!.england didnt declare war until france was attacked!.!.!.!.!.!.!.!.!.england declared after invasion of poland although we could have intervened earlier then finland would have stayed on our side!Www@QuestionHome@Com we need some one like hitler in england to sort this country outWww@QuestionHome@Com |