Position:Home>History> I think the world would be a much beter place if the south had won the american

Your argument is based off of several false premises!.

You claim that America’s “claim [to be] the champions of minorities” is based on the Union victory in the American Civil War!. While I am not sure that America does claim to be the champions of minorities, if it does I believe the claim stems not from the way we ended slavery but rather from the immigrant nature of our country and the way different cultures have combined over the past 200 years!. I am among the first to admit that the US record on civil rights, both domestically and overseas, has been spotty at best!. However when compared to the rest of the world, the US is at worst on par with other countries!.

While it is true that Lincoln said that if he could save the Union without freeing the slaves, you have taken a small fragment from a larger argument in a letter to Horace Greely!. The full paragraph reads thus:
“I would save the Union!. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution!. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was!." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them!. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them!. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery!. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that!. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union!. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause!. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views!. I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free!.”

The full argument clearly shows Lincoln’s personal objections to slavery and also his willingness to preserve the country and sense of duty and obligation to do so!. Lincoln was an abolitionist, and belonged to the abolitionist party!. The issue of the Civil War was not slavery, but rather the role, responsibility, and relationship to the states of the Federal Government!. It is true that the Civil War did change the US into a more solid and permanent union with a stronger national identity!. However if you look at Europe during this same time period you will find the same growing sense of national identity!.

Your statement that “the southern states would not have reverted to the type of disgusting racism that they practiced after losing the war if they had been a separate country and not forced to accept northern rules” is widely inaccurate!. The southern states were deeply entrenched in the institutions of slavery!. Slavery would not have disappeared without significant turmoil!. The violence that occurred in the post-Apartheid South Africa would be nothing compared to the violence that probably would have accompanied the end of slavery in the southern states!. The speed with which Jim Crow laws were passed and the newly freed slaves were disenfranchised in the South despite protection of 3 Constitutional Amendments and Federal Troops speaks to the power of racism in the South!. If you examine the Civil Rights Movement of almost 100 years latter, you will see the beginning of the end of those feelings!.

surly the world would have been better of if the south had won and not been feed American culture down our throats to countries would have made them concentrate on their own affairs not become the illegitimate champions of freedom

You state that if the South had won, American culture would not have been forced onto other countries!. However it was the South that drove Manifest Destiny!. It was Southern states that pushed for the Mexican War; it was Southern states that advocated the annexation of Cuba and Latin America before the Civil War!. It was Thomas Jefferson, a Virginian, who defied the Constitution and his own beliefs in making the Louisiana Purchase!. Had the South won there is no guarantee that it would not have continued its expansion and created a colonial empire in the Caribbean and Latin America!.

You also argue that if the US was two separate countries it would not have the resources to become a world power!. Yet if you look at France and England, they have only a fraction of the resources of the US, yet are world powers!. It is also necessary to examine how the South won!. Had they merely been able to force a diplomatic solution by preventing a Northern invasion, the Union States would still have stretched to the Pacific and would have contained California!. Or if the South had succeeded in conquering the North (an idea while implausible is still possible) you would have a country the same land, population, and resources but with a deep seated racism at its core!.

It is also necessary to take the ‘what if’ to the next level!. Would the Spanish American War have occurred!? If so would Spain have been able to hold on to its processions –either in the Philippines or Cuba!? Who would the US/CSA have supported in WWI and would they have entered the war sooner!? The same questions apply to WWII!. Without the strong opposition provided by the US, would Stalin’s totalitarian regime have spread across the globe!?

There can be no justification for genocide!. However the US is not alone in its actions!. You would be hard pressed to find a nation that has not experienced cultural/racial persecution and pogroms in the last 150 years!. The US has acted as an imperial nation!. However most of those imperial actions occurred after WWI, not the Civil War so the argument that the North winning the Civil War led to the rise of American Imperialism is faulty!.

There are other arguments possible to support your general idea, but most involve the collusion of other nations!. America has done nothing on its own!. The rise of Consumer Culture began in France!. Modern Colonialism began in Europe!. The threat posed by dictators like Hitler and Stalin forced the US to abandon its isolationist stance!. To claim that any ills caused by the US could have been avoided had the Confederates won the American Civil War is a weak one at best, and ludicrous at worst!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

---

---

"!.!.!.the southern states would not have reverted to the type of disgusting racism that they practiced after losing the war!.!.!."
Oh!? People in power don't easily give up their power!. You have no reason to make your claim!. Look at South Africa with apartheid and Rhodesia under Smith!. Without pressure racism tends to perpetuate itself!. William Faulkner essentially told the North to keep hands off the South, the South could solve its own problems, thank you!. But it is Northern pressure, and pressure by such people as MLK, that extended civil rights into the south!.
The racial situation in American today is relatively positive--relative to so many places in the world, that is!. Obama as a serious contender for the presidency is just one example!.
The South was fortunate in losing the war!. The fact that the country healed as well as it did is an example in the correctness of the war's outcome!.
If Southerners agreed with you, I think you might find a movement today for the South to secede again,although in a more legal way, altho the Consititution makes no provision for succession!.
We live in one country as Americans!. I am a Californian, my father was from Indiana and my mother from Texas!. A person important to my upbringing was the granddaughter of a slave!. So I have mixed roots, and I am happy to call myself an American, neither a Westerner nor a Northerer nor a Southerner--just a fortunate American!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

---

---

Well I am from Tennessee and all, but I disagree!.
I see what you are saying, the Yankees did not care about the slave!. History shows this (they didn't get civil rights till the 60's afterall)!. I don't think the North ever claims that they are more moral and wanted to end slavery!. They were much more concerned about their economy!. The same abolitionists we glorify today were outcasts during and even after the civil war especially in the north!. However, saying that the South should have won is a grave mistake!. Even if we did not have slavery, we would live in a country that is divided!. It took Ab Lincoln to pull the country back together (though his succesor was not so gifted), preparing America for a neo-nationalism, westward expansion, the progressive era, and increased international involvement!. The South was full of people who hated change and would have rejected all that!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

---

---

If you knew how to use punctuation, your statement would be easier to follow!.

You have made a lot of assumptions that cannot be proved!. Many slaves were cruelly treated before the war!. You do not take in account what the relationship would have been between the North and South!. You do not take in account the possible actions by England, France, Spain, or any other country!.

The U!.S!. has not invaded hundreds of countries!. There are less than 200 countries in the world now!. The number increased greatly with the break up of the Soviet Union, and the various European empires!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

---

---