Who's fault was the fall from grace?

Question:Christians, you never say
"WE decided to invade Poland in 1939" (that was Hitler).
or
"WE decided to drop the bomb on Horoshima" (that was the US govt"
or
"We decided to murder and torture innocent people in Europe for a few hundred years" (that was the inquisition)
or
"WE decided to invade England in 1066" (that was the normans)

etc etc,

but you are very happy to say
"WE decided to rebel against God in the garden of Eden".

Coz I got news for you, none of us currently living were there.
So why should WE be included in its ramifications?

Why are we any LESS culpable for invading Poland, than for eating the magical fruit from the magical tree? Both things were individual decisions. Would it be fair if God punished ME for the fact that Hitler invaded Poland, on the grounds that "You're part of humanity" ?

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker: Christians, you never say
"WE decided to invade Poland in 1939" (that was Hitler).
or
"WE decided to drop the bomb on Horoshima" (that was the US govt"
or
"We decided to murder and torture innocent people in Europe for a few hundred years" (that was the inquisition)
or
"WE decided to invade England in 1066" (that was the normans)

etc etc,

but you are very happy to say
"WE decided to rebel against God in the garden of Eden".

Coz I got news for you, none of us currently living were there.
So why should WE be included in its ramifications?

Why are we any LESS culpable for invading Poland, than for eating the magical fruit from the magical tree? Both things were individual decisions. Would it be fair if God punished ME for the fact that Hitler invaded Poland, on the grounds that "You're part of humanity" ?

Obviously all religions are just stories which make no sense whatsoever in the real world.

It wouldn't be fair, no.

The Christian would probably argue that things like the invasion of Poland or the bombing of Hiroshima were the results of that original "fall from grace."

well i'm not a christian but I would say they would argue the hilter point as him not being a christian (actaully he created his own regilion as him as the savior/god)

I first want to point out that I do not believe in god, or in any higher power for that matter.

There is a school of thought that is ascribed the title "The fortunate fall." Here it is in a nutshell:

God is all-knowing, right? Correct. Logically, he knew that Eve would partake in the forbidden fruit, and that she and Adam would consume it. Satan (or simply the adversary in hebrew writing) in the form of the snake was not being sneaky. Indeed, god knew full well of his intent to lure Eve into eating the fruit. Why didn't he stop them??

Essentially, Eve and Adam were so good, they were boring. They were mindless automatons, going through the motions. The fruit of the tree gave them the ability to think... it provided knowledge. While with this came evil, it also brought true good as well. Being good just because one is programmed to be that way is not TRULY good. But through CHOOSING to be good, one has aspired to a higher level. The only way that the ability to choose could exist was through gaining knowledge.

Thus, we are far more interesting and complex as result... and we gained the ability to have free choice.

Of course, god still knows what we're going to do in the future, apparently.

But outside of this philosophy, I agree with your comments. Why should we be punished for things we did not do? Clearly the fault is not our own for the millions who perished as a result of war or genocide.

Think about earth for a moment. If global warming experts are correct (and I very much assume they are), then your children and mine will be punished for something that our generation and those before ours did. They will possibly be forced to pay for the damages incurred (through taxes, perhaps.) That is not fair, either, and yet they must exist in a world that we had a hand in creating.

I find your question very interesting, but I cannot answer well enough, I am afraid.

I hesitate to think about what Kant would say.

the first consequence of eating that fruit is death and i'm sure you will agree that we all die
the rest is human nature such as you might say you have beautiful eyes rather than you have an ugly wart