Without humans or intelligent beings, would mathematics still exist?

Question: Without humans or intelligent beings, would mathematics still exist!?

For instance, would the concept of adding two piles of rocks exist in a rock universe with no people, where there are nothing but rocks!. Essentially I'm asking is there such thing as a "mathspace" that exists independently of tangible reality!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker:

I'm not sure why combining two piles of rocks would need "mathspace" independent of tangible reality!. That sounds a lot like Plato's heaven of ideas, and doesn't seem any more plausible to me!.

Mathematics is a tool humans use to measure and predict the tangible world!. Without us, mathematical concepts would not exist (assuming there are no other species which have mathematical concepts)!. But two rocks combined with two rocks would still be four rocks!. For the life of me, I don't see why an independent realm of existence would be required to make 4 rocks into 4 rocks!.

Maggie, in your example you are just substituting "5" for "4!." That doesn't change the truth that the amount which we normally mean by "2" combined with an identical amount will result in an amount which we normally mean by "4!." Our symbols might be arbitrary and relative, but that doesn't mean the concepts they express are!. I am going to get in to trouble if I get too far into the philosophy of math, but I think it is held by many that 2+2=4 is a necessary, analytic truth!. That is, what we mean by 4 is the same as what we mean by 2+2!. This would mean that 2+2=4 is a tautology (true by definition), and that is as far from a relative truth as you can get!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

I guess that depends on how you define "math!." Most people think of math as a language!. But languages are supposed to correspond to something real!. If there were no sentient beings, I don't think there would be math in the sense of a language, but the reality codified by math, I think, would still exist!. The reality codified by math, I think, have the same ontological status as the laws of logic!. They are necessary truths!. It's impossible for them NOT to exist!. Two and two would make four in all possible worlds--including worlds in which nobody was around to apprehend it or articulate it!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

well who is to say that mathematics is for sure!? isn't it all coincidental!? if the first mathematician said 2+2=5 then we would have 1 2 3 5 6 or 1 2 3 5 4!. it's all relative!.
but, yes it would, with the same rules and laws that it has, you cannot change a law that is eternal!. it would have the same concepts but not necessarily the same filling!. you would still have your 2 piles of rocks, but there wouldn't have to be 2 piles, there could be 'eck' piles shown by a symbol in a language we do not recognize!.
I have never seen you so who is to say that you are merely a computer or not who you say you are!. but you know you are you!. the 2 piles of rocks (though with know formal thought process) know what they are, otherwise they would be in a tree, and they know they are separate, otherwise they would be together!.
they are what they are no matter who is or isn't present!.
yes, it would still exist, but not in the entirety that we know it as!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

no, if nothing intelligent is there to experience sometihng, that something might as well not exist!.!.!. of course if a monkey took a coconut and slammed it against a rock, it would still break up into two halves!.!.!. and two rocks laying next to two rocks would still be four rocks but who would care!?!?!? so my answer has to be no, assuming dogs don't have their own "mathematics", and ET is just a figment of Melissa Mathison's immaginationWww@QuestionHome@Com

Without consciousness why does anything have to know it exist or why would they even care!? We enjoy math as a language and a teacher the allows us to organize our lives into neat little rows that we can always count on to be there in the mornning when we wake!. We use math to understand the workings of the world within, the world around us, and the world beyond!. A rock doesn't care if there are two rocks or a thousand rocks!. What value would there be in such a place!? Unless the rocks had a consciousness and were perhaps naming each other or playing a game !.!.!. 1 rock 2 rock 3 rock 4!. I don't move much any more!. Waiting here to be picked up then they chuck me across the brook!. :)Www@QuestionHome@Com

Yes!. Mathematics is the study of the properties of figures and properties of the universe!. For instance, 10 plus 2 is always equal to 22!.4252, no matter what language you say it in!.
More importantly, can one sneeze while they eat cheese!?

On an unrelated topic, I like tacos!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

I see what you mean!. Does Maths exist with noone there to make sense of it!?

No, I don't think it even matters without us!. That's why I think there is more to life than we are let on about!.

Could be religion being correct after all or something along those lines of spiritual, but that makes us special!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

math is nothing more than language!.

that we have named trees did not cause them to exist!.

in mathematics, that we have named proportions, relations, and features of geometry did not cause geometry, relations, and proportions to exist!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

Yes!. Human beings had discovered it and the intelligent ones had improved it!. The genius ones had elaborated and created it more!

It is the most useful expression that the universe had ever rendered!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

So to speak, yes!. There is a fourth dimension in the universe that is really nothing more than a mathematical paradigm!. Einstein discovered it!. You can read more about that at http://www!.nullphysics!.com!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

of course!. the idea of 2 plus 2 not being 4 is ludicrous!. we do not create mathematics, we create the symbols that imperfectly convey the perfect art of math!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

hypothetically if human nor intellectual beings didn't exist,
math would never have exist due to the fact that math is a social construct or idea (more like a tool anyway) in which helps our society get by!.!.!.!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

mathematics is a way to organize things and if there is nobody to organize numbers then mathematics will not exist!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

No, it would not!. That sounds like the fallen tree in the forest which nobody heard!. It did
not fall!. Without intelligent beings mathematics would not exist!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

Yes maths are everywhere!.!.!. They may be discovered or not!. But mathematical rules are applyed to everything!.!.!.

Anywhere!Www@QuestionHome@Com

Yes, but there would be no one around to recognize said concept !. !. !. leading to a whole set of new questions!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

No!. Math doesnt actually exist!. Its a human construct!.Www@QuestionHome@Com

yes it would exist!.!.!.!.!.coz even then 2 plus 2 would be a four!.!.!.!.!.lolzWww@QuestionHome@Com

Yes!.
There are still white mice!.Www@QuestionHome@Com