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Question: Question for my fellow Atheists!?
I stumbled upon an interesting arguent for gods existence on this site here:
http://www!.kingschurchkendal!.net/13!.htmlMost of the arguments are rather weak, but this one struck me as rather compelling your thoughts!?
Does God exist!? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today!.
Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end!. But here are a few:
The Earth!.!.!.its size is perfect!. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface!. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury!. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter!.4 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life!.
The Earth is located the right distance from the sun!.
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This argument is easily refuted in a number of ways!. This is basically an example of the anthropic principle, which says that we are here because the conditions are right to observe it; if conditions _weren't_ right, we wouldn't be around to ponder any of this!. In other words we didn't need to be "put" here by some deity, we're where we are because where we are was a good place for life to arise!.
Actually, Earth could be considerably bigger and still have a breathable atmosphere!. Hydrogen bonds to many things, including oxygen (to make water), minerals, carbon compounds, etc!. And who's to say that life can't evolve in a hydrogen-rich atmosphere!? There's certainly no scientific reason prohibiting it!.
What will happen to this argument if we were to discover life in the oceans of Europa beneath the ice!? Whoever wrote the answer above displays a real lack of both imagination and scientific knowledge!.
By the way, Saturn's moon Titan is about the same size as Mercury, and has an atmosphere 4 times thicker than Earth's!. Mars is a bit smaller than Earth but only has 1% as dense an atmosphere as Earth!. Venus is almost exactly the same size as Earth but has an atmosphere 90 times as thick!. So planetary size doesn't have much to do with atmospheric thickness except at very small or very large scales!.
Now, we can actually turn the whole question around against the idea of a Creator!. The truth is, only an extremely infinitesimal fraction of the universe is habitable!. The vast, VAST majority of it would kill us very quickly--too cold, no air, too much radiation, etc!. So one has to ask then, why would a god create only this tiny, minuscule little speck of dust for us to live on!? A truly omnipotent creator god could have created an entire cosmos that was habitable by humans & other life!. He could have made a flat world, infinite in all north/south/east/west directions, with enough land, food, water and resources to support an infinite number of beings!. Why didn't he do this!? Why, it looks more like our world was formed naturally, without regard to humans or any other life forms that might arise on it!.!.!.!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
While intriguing, this is by no means proof of divine design!. Chaos theory can predict the exact same phenomena given the size and nature of the exiting universe!. also, these observations are a posteriori, because we just happen to be here, on this planet, making these observations!. We do not, however, happen to be on other planets where life could develop and evolve, but this does not discount their existence!. Carbon based life in the universe, while rare, is not unlikely!. The same can be said for silicon based life, or other types of life forms that we are currently unable to understand!. We are proof that life exists, not that god exists!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
To this I would have to say: It had to happen somewhere in the universe!.
Having said that, there are also hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanic explosions, floods, tsunamis, tornadoes, disease, poverty, and places on the planet that are harsh and unliveable due to climate!. If our planet is supposed to be perfection, then he missed a few major points of negativity!.
There are probably billions of planets in the universe that are in their star's goldilocks zone, and many of them probably support life!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
This is one of those circular attempts to reverse logic; cause and effect!.
According to mysticism, man is the 'cause' of the universe, that conditions on Earth were specifically created by god to be suitable to the survival of man!.!.!. According to evolution, man is an 'effect' and evolved in response to the conditions of earth!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
Yabbut - as perfect as the earth is, notice that there are a billion other planets, as you point out, that are not!. It is likely just chance that conditions are as they are here!. Further, rather than look at it as "how lucky for us that conditions are right for us here", we could look at it as "we're just the life form that grows in these conditions"!. IN other conditions life might be different!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
Yes, we live on a Goldilocks' planet; everything is just right for life to develop and thrive!. But this doesn't prove that God exists, just that life could develop and thrive if the right conditions exist!. If you read some astrophysics books, you'll find that the universe itself is a Goldilocks' universe!. If certain initial factors had been even slightly different at the Big Bang, our life-friendly universe could not have developed!. Some physicists propose the multi-verse theory; we just happen to be in one of the multi-verses that is just right for life!. Keep reading!. You might decide to become!.!.!.tada!.!.!.an agnostic like me!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
Obviously Earth's size must be perfect, its structure must be perfect!.!.!. otherwise it wouldn't exist or sustain life, in which case we wouldn't be around to theorize!. If it was more imperfect, it wouldn't be here!. It would fail!.
No argument can truly prove the existence of God!.!.!. it can only twist and gnaw at your conscience, imposing the opiate of the masses!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
i think chance is a perfectly fine answer!. the universe is so large that there had to be a place that could support life and our earth is it!. the same goes for the complexity of the planet, chance, out of such a big place, possibly endless, there had to be a place that could support life!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
If there is a God of great design why did he stop at designing only one planet fit for life!? What about the others!? This planet is nothing more than a winning lottery ticket for life to sustain!. Mother Nature lets us live here, you've all seen her wrath when pissed off!. Nothing man maid can sustain her fury and yet she is no God! She just is!. And we just exist until we don't!Www@QuestionHome@Com
You are completely right!. If the sun was just a little closer, all of earths water would evaporate!. If the sun was just a little further all the water would freeze!. The moon is right where it needs to be as well, if the moon was closer we would have crazy constant tsunami-like weather!Www@QuestionHome@Com
If your an atheist and you don't believe in God and are wanting to believe that he doesn't exist then who are you really rebeling against!?!?!?Www@QuestionHome@Com
I am not going for the points here! If you are an Atheist and you have not thought of these things yourself, then in what sense are you an Atheist!? Are your parents Atheists and raised you that way!? Are you just beginning to think about these things!?
The design argument fails before it even gets started!. Evolution is a very messy and wasteful way to design anything!. Eyes are not perfect!. The heart could easily be improved upon!. Don't you think that an almighty-loving being could think of a better way to nourish organisms than to have everything eating everything else!?
The best you can get out of the fact that this universe gave rise to something that can describe it is the principle that if it is possible, it will happen! I don't think God is possible, therefore he/she/it/they do not/have not/will not happen!. Why!? Because it is not possible!. I will admit, I may be wrong!. Zeus might be possible and will come to exist if he is possible!. Jesus did exist, but his father is a contradiction!.Www@QuestionHome@Com
All this argument demonstrates is that Earth is able to support life!. That's it!. It shouldn't suggest some miracle of selection and design!. Rather, it suggests that ANY 'terrestrial' planet of our size, composition, and distance from a Sol-type star would probably evolve lifeforms!. And given enough time, intelligent, technologically capable organisms might also evolve!.Www@QuestionHome@Com