Do you agree or disagree with Plato?

Question:Plato, a Greek philosopher and disciple of Socrates claimed that poetry is a false representation of reality. He believed poetry is potentially dangerous because it incites emotions and is unrealistic. Do you agree or disagree with Plato?

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker: Plato, a Greek philosopher and disciple of Socrates claimed that poetry is a false representation of reality. He believed poetry is potentially dangerous because it incites emotions and is unrealistic. Do you agree or disagree with Plato?

some people mistake words, thoughts, description of the world with reality. when you say "this is a tree" and then walk away, then you completely miss this alive being that the tree really is. the tree doesn't know that it is called tree. it is just an alive and wonderful part of nature. the tree can only be experienced through awareness and presence, when we look with awareness, with the senses, instead of labelling everything through thought forms and concepts...

poetry is beautiful, and when you get stuck in it, and take the words as reality and miss the actual life flow, then it holds you back from living life, then it could be labelled as "dangerous", which is another word, another concept.

great question

I tend to agree with Plato. However, I think poetry is beautiful and makes life worth living. Emotions have their place in the world. Again they help to make life worth living and to know that you are alive if you feel things beyond the physical. It may be unrealistic but most people are aware of reality, whether they wish to admit it or not. (unconsciously or consciously)

yes,
and I think that advertisements are a good example of this at work.

no i don't agree with plato that poetry is a false representation of reality, because emotion is very real, and sometimes when i'm reading a person's poetry that maybe about a piece of their own life, it can make me feel where there coming from and i may cry or laugh, your in the moment, so yes emotion is very real.

Truth is ineffable, insofar as the human language is subject-object-based, thus incapable of accurately and completely reflecting Truth of Being.

Poetry is particularly emotional, irrational, hence, more threatening to a Republic in which the best selflessly govern, and mythos provides more stable solace.

So, poetry is incapable of re-presenting Truth, and Plato holds that his Republic is the best man can do; hence, the mythos provided by the State is more useful than mere infantilism expressed as poetry.

In modern times, such was the attitude of Stalinist Soviet Union. "The Magical Chorus," Solomon Volkov, is a kind of example of the power of unsanctioned poetry as alternative mythos in a corrupt "Republic" or "Soviet."

"The Path of the Higher Self," Mark Prophet, contains some good reasoning re the matrix quality of the "state as god," and late Soviet life is well described by psychiatrist Olga Kharitidi in her "Entering the Circle" and "The Master of Lucid Dreams," and by GRU officer Viktor Suvorov in his "Inside the Aquarium."

It is worth noting that Plotinus, with his One Mind Soul-individuation and -realization, Wang Bi, Sadra, and Heidegger are examples of "unconcealing" ("kashf," etc.) in which poetry or other Self-realization brings a kind of Light into the energy-veiling or e-viling with which the "state as god" conditions its "citizen units." Plato might counter with the claim that such under-standing of the Good would be available to the servant-leaders, as Gnosis, but that the majority of citizens would prefer something more human, more comfortingly mythic. As an example of the Platonic servant-leader level, Franklin Merrell-Wolff's "Experience and Philosophy" reaches the Gnosis level (encountering Void as Nirvana). A more nuanced and shaded version of such awareness is given in Tanabe's "Philosophy as Metanoetics."

For Plato the senses only provide an image of the "realm of ideas" that constitute knowledge. If you make an image of an image you are three times removed from the realm of knowledge. Knowledge is only achieved through hard work and most art is aimed at "flattery" or entertainment of the many. If you entertain your masses, but fail to provide them a proper education your society will not long stand. We await with baited breath for our baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet culture to prove him right or wrong.

i would have to disagree. i write poetry to express myself. i use words that express my feelings in the clearest way possible. i try to get to the bottom of what i'm feeling or thinking.

Poetry is both a false representation of reality, and one that is capable of expressing more truth than literal language.

I certainly agree that poetry is potentially dangerous, for that reason and those cited by Plato. I might add that I find that to be an argument in favor of poetry rather than against it.

Anything sufficiently powerful is dangerous!

I agree. Combine poetry with instruments and what do you get: music! Music incites all kinds of unrealistic types of emotions. Some music likes to talk about making money, having fame and women. Is this realistic? No, but people like it. Some music talks about love and finding true happiness. Is this realistic? No, but it would be nice. Some music just promotes violence in general. Is this realistic? Yes, in the sense that the violence committed is real.

Poetry can move people to war. It can be used to incite religion. The practice of poetry by really good poets can destroy beliefs or give rise to new ones. I agree he has a valid point. I write poetry myself but can understand what he means. Aside from his statement being made back in the day when words were more important than anything, he believed that the metaphors in poetry could be misconstrued into something negative, whereas politicians and such spoke without the need for interpretation, therefore no confusion.

It really depends upon the poetry.
Some poets are highly enlightened souls, whose poetry is like a kind of purification.
Tagor, Kabir, Blake. They can take you deeper into the essence of things.
Others ( Byron for example) seem to tug on your intellect and sentiments too much.

I disagree with him. I disagree with him on a number of issues.

There is an uncomfortable amount of truth to Plato's views.

We should note that they resemble the views of at least two other minds of very high ranking -- Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Leo Tolstoy.

I like to think of this as the "grumpy old men" view of the arts. There is truth to it, but it is not the whole of the truth.