Without mentioning The Bible (or anything in it) can you give me a logical and p

Question:...that you don't think that the idea of a "fantastigorical, bodiless, cosmically conscious being of pure energy called God," is an "extremely far-fetched, ludicrous, and absurd thing" for an educated and rational human being to believe in?

(Remember...the parameters of this question do not allow you to mention anything "Biblical" or churchy in your answer)

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker: ...that you don't think that the idea of a "fantastigorical, bodiless, cosmically conscious being of pure energy called God," is an "extremely far-fetched, ludicrous, and absurd thing" for an educated and rational human being to believe in?

(Remember...the parameters of this question do not allow you to mention anything "Biblical" or churchy in your answer)

Reverse the question, a bit. What's in it for a 'fantastigorical, bodiless, cosmically conscious being, to create what is here.Why bother? This reality might be an answer to a vexing problem a Prime Mover might have. That problem might have something to do with minus 270K. No real light. No daytime drama to spritz the place up with. Until solved, this situation could last, well, for eternity. Bummer for the Prime Mover.So, we have something we call the Big Bang, a reversal of E=mc2, an obvious diety thing, production of zillions of tons of Hydrogen, Helium, and thus, blue giant heavy atom makers, more big blasts, stuff of legends called Super Nova, and then we have accretion discs, universe wide, with accompaning G class stars, with the eventuality of Rock and Roll, wild sex, heavy machinery, wars, TV drama's, cheap whiskey, and people of import, like the Big Bopper. Even stuff like LOVE becomes possible. Ridiculous I know, but love is usually followed by lawsuits, but that still beats being bored to death in an eternal deep freeze. The common thread that lets the Prime Mover enjoy all this lunacy is the Hydrogen. Gives off a nice radio signal, No H2O, no life, so all life if radiating its experiences back to, or into, the Prime Mover who gets to play the game of life, love, and whatever, with those critters that are alive. All of them, at once, universe wide. No rules, just boogie to that jungle beat. Well, some rules, like physics. Can't just go out and violate physics, could get ones little self killed off. Physics would be the rules then, one can always tell one of these laws of God, one can't break them. Try as we might, we just can't seem to trump some of these party spoilers like the laws of Thermodynamics. Damn. But theres plenty of wiggle room for a great time, romance, and real danger. Best to you, and enjoy the ride.

In a sense, science proves the existence of a God. Take the principle that says "Matter/Energy can neither be created or destroyed." Well, if this is true, then how did the matter and energy that make us, the planet, the universe, come into being?

because i feel it in my heart , mind, body, and soul. that enough to make me a believer.

My thoughts exactly.

I believe with everything in this world being as "Normal" as it is, that God as a being is rather dubious. When is the last time something utterly miracle like has happened to you, something that can not be explained by science and medicine etc..

It is quite astonishing that the majority of people on earth have this belief that he (it) exists. And believe with no proof.

One thing we are taught is never trust someone that says trust me. Yet humans trust that God exists without any means of proof of his existence.

I personally believe that stories which God is a character are exactly that only stories. People I think have the need to believe in something - I don't by any means understand why that need is there. I think if God did not exist to them life would somehow feel pointless if there was not something else they could count on after death.

Mass delusion amazingly absurd but true.

"The Path of the Higher Self," Mark Prophet,"Psychoenergetic Science," Dr. William A. Tiller, http://www.tiller.org "Mindful Universe," Dr. Henry P. Stapp, http://www.integralscience.org

They say the more educated you are the less religious you will become.

Most 'intelligent' people tend not to believe in something that does not have evidence. For rational people, spending time in believing in omniscient and omnipotent existence with no solid evidence seems ridiculous/wasteful.

Some of the bible facts have been somewhat negated. The creationism, many people now believe in evolution/abiogenesis.

Statistics show that many people are less and less religious as before; people leaving their religion etc. Some people now think conception of god is a fall-back answer for natural phenomenon that cannot be comprehended with modern science.

People also ask 'if all loving god exists, why are there disease, war, child molesters?, etc'.

Religion somewhat contradict science, and i think so far science is winning.

However im open to anything. Who says creationism and evolution cant co-exist? Einstein was a deist, and newton was a devoted christian, that is saying something.

A thought provoking question.

Thanks for asking. ;)

Let us think logically.

First of all supposing we allowed the universe to develop by itself the probabilty that it developed in a random non mathematical way is far higher than if it had developed by the laws of Mathematics and Physics.
However this alone is not enough to prove God's existence. We must consider theory such as Quantum, String and M theories.These theories all point to a universe of chance of probabilty. One where we cannot accuratly predict event merely determine the probabilty of paticular outcomes of the event. One must consider that theories such as these undermine our current belief in the set of existing theory we have developed. All in all these theories show how little we really know about the universe in which we live.
Thus God has come to represent the unknown. Furthermore we are attempting to find the 'God' particle at CERN laboratories in Switzerland. This particle, the Higgs Boson, is believed to use the Higgs field to impart mass.
When we look at the question of God we must first consider the ideas which we have developed of the Universe. We must then mould are image of God around it. Using this we can determine a few things. First if God exists God exists outside the universe thus existing outside the bounds of space and time. God is not eternal because time does not exist outside our universe, nor does God have size since space does not exist outside our universe. To God the creation, existence and death of the Universe all occur at the same instance and they are an eternity apart all at once, they are one. Furthermore God does not intervene in the Universe the universe operates by the laws of probabilty and of mathematics and physics that began at the Big Bang singularity, the creation of this Universe. it is easy therefore to think of God as a programmer, the Universe as God's program, Mathematics as the code in which the Universe was written and Physics as the rules by which the program runs. Once the program has started God has little to no control over its operations yet knows what is going to happen since it was God that wrote the code.

Richard Dawkins would call your argument an argument from incredulity, i.e. If you can't imagine it, it must not be true.

We are either created beings or not and we have no way of knowing which it is. If we were created, then I reason that there must be another world where a Being is able to create outside the laws of physics, i.e. the supernatural world.

We seek that which we hope to find. I hope to find and experience my Creator. Other people hope for the independence to live their lives without any authority over them.

This isn't part of my argument, but the universe has been shown to be incredibly fine tuned for life. The only way that has been answered is with the multiverse. Now that is something hard to swallow.

The desire for God is written in the human heart ,because we are created by God and for God;and God never ceases to draw us to himself. Only in God will we find the truth and happiness we never stop searching for.

Would it make you happy to say I do not believe in the eternal creator who made Heaven and Earth?
Sorry! I was not put on this earth to make you happy.

perhaps it's not a creator but creation itself that becomes the cosmic conciousness or god if you prefer.

I am not a Christian and hence i do not profess any biblical knowledge. Let me approach your question, in the most unbiblical and unchristian like manner.

God, to me, is not person like you and I. Nor is he a living being. He(for the sake of convenience, I cal "Him'.He is asexual) is spirit and the cosmic energy. He has no form. But, he manifests himself in myriad forms. We, the human beings and all the living and non-living beings do have attributes of Him, within us.Hence, we say is formless and yet remains within all the forms of life. As a matter of fact, it is His presence within us, that gives us life and an attribute. He is a bodiless being and yet the cause of the body and the life within all beings.

Good question, and for a very rational mind it should be unheard of. Most of the reason anyone really believes in god is that they are afraid not to. No one wants to believe that there is not a higher power that will have a place for them when they pass. I contemplate this question a lot. Some believe because they feel it makes them a better person, or it makes them abide by certain rules. It gives you hope when you have none at all. I do not believe all the bible stuff. I do believe in god, just because you can not hear, smell, taste, or touch does not mean he/she is there. Possibly I will pass, and there will be nothing and I will be wrong.

There are diseases that are there, and we can not prove medically that they exist, but they do.

My logical explation is people are afraid of whats to become, and like children they need some security.

It is faith and we practice faith on a daily basis. We get married, and have faith in our partners to be faithful, and be together forever. We say we love people, but we can not see nor hear it. Doctors tell us we have illness's that we can not see, or even feel, but they are there.

A blind person walks through life, and can see nothing. Just because they can see things does not make them not there. That goes for a blind person to.

I have had issues with this for as long as I can remember, and there are to many things that we can not see, touch, or feel that are very real. The best explanation for me for me would be to compare it to emotions, I still struggle with the thought, and I think there is much more out there than that.

Plus, in evalution I see no other way fit. The whole ape thing is a hoax, becuase as one species evolves the other goes extinct. If that did not happen, than you would have ape's in mid evalution now. None of the above are possible.

The whole being created from atom fusion is probably not possible either. We had dino's first, and so on and so forth. Would the atoms not bond again, and recreate the extinct animals? Again, makes no sense.

These are a few of the things that I can think of that people may do this.

We inherit our chemistry from the universe of matter but where do we inherit the endowment of our intelligence, our unique personality? It seems that what ever force brought us to be has also left traces of its attributes in us too. How come that 'the creation' (us) also creates? I believe that if you look at what makes us tick it will not be inconceivable to think that there is a reality who possesses in a radical way what we find traces of in ourselves. We can only have these attributes and live in our reality unless we were a possibility in the ground of our being. There are many things which you cannot capture under the microscope yet we can conceive them by their empirical effects. There are elements in us that do not come under physical laws which we discover intuitively through a numinous spirituality. As far fetched as this may seem its not simply the figment of imagination or religious influence. The search for meaning and existence is a nagging question to a great many people and the possibility of an existence in another medium outside the physical universe cannot be ruled out.

Peace

This is an unfair f***ing question!
I have an intellectual answer, but it requires you to research what the Bible says about the history and future of Israel and compare it to what recorded in secular history as well as current events.
Not looking at the Bible for the sake of conversion, but to gather data for comparison.
Why do you torment me by creating "parameters"? I had more to say than this. I think you're just scuured that I might teach you something. Ask again, without guidelines!

"The proof is in the pudding" It should not be difficult for an educated and rational human being to see God in everything. What is the force that causes the heart to beat? What is the force that came up with the idea of life? How is it that a flower and then a leaf can sprout out of a branch which is but a piece of bare wood in the winter? What is the force which enables people to love? Consider that although we live in a world that seems solid, the reality is that if one looks close enough, using a microscope, pretty much everything is made up of space, and only a very small portion of an atom has solid material. Consider the immensity of our universe, the speed of light and the distance between the stars that seem to be right next to each other, and the fact that the light one sees from our sun is eight minutes old by the time that it reaches Earth. The closest star to us other then the sun is about four light years away. What is the force that created and started all of this? Who thought up and made the universal laws by which all of nature is obedient unto? How is it that this Earth is so perfectly positioned that we can enjoy an average temperature range? How is it that the Earth is just the right size, and spins at just the right speed that we can enjoy a gravitational pull that doesn’t crush us into the ground? And keeps the atmosphere from being sucked up into the vacuum of space? How is it that the Earth wobbles in such a way that most of it gets to enjoy the four seasons? Consider that though one cannot see energy wind or gravity with the naked eye we nonetheless experience its affects, and have total trust and faith in these forces of nature. This universe is filled with of so many utterly profound and amazing things that the only logical and reasonable conclusion to it all is God.

No I don't because I believe it, I am not the kind of person that believes in absurdity. God is a feeling within me that only I can know within myself. It is a peace, a love, a knowing without seeing, a comfort. God is within everyone, some just choose not to accept that fact and ignore it. God is who I talk to when I'm in deep concern for someone and I know they need help. That spirit is there for me and listens and does do wonders. Most people don't know that.
I would rather live my life believing there is a God then die to find out there isn't....than to live my life as if there is no God and die to find out that he is real.

no.

For me it was a personal connection, a very significant and dramatic sense of being overcome with peace and conenctivity and even answers that appeared in my head when I first attempted to make the connection. Could it have all been psychological and organic? Yes. That what separates faith from understanding. It cann't be proven.

I don't think faith and religion are incompatible with rational thought. They can coexist.

Also, the giant space yams said so, and why would they lie to me? Pookie say what? etc.

If the theory of Christianity is a mythological apparition, then you must believe in the origin of the species?
The theory that has not been proven by the shroud of Turin is a DNA testing if the shroud is real the DNA should show only one side?
The church has with held many documents it should have released and has chose not to, but I still believe like Brooks and Dunn says: " I can't quote you chapter or verse, but I believe that it all does not end in a slow riding Hearst."

I have personally experienced and also witnesses several acts or things that I believe to be answers to prayer both in my own life and in some lives of those around me.

I had a tree fall on me fracturing my skull and severing a vein inside my head and I was alone at the time and had about a 30 minute trip to the hospital. I prayed to God to get me to the hospital (I was alone at the time) and I knew I'd be ok if I got there but He would have to get me there. I had to drive about 15 minutes on a tractor to get to my truck and I can remember about 30 seconds of that ride, no way did I get to my truck on my own power. I then drove to the hospital (and I do pretty much remember that drive), locked my truck in the parking lot and collapsed inside the abbulance entrance doors.

I had to have emergency brain surgery that afternoon and of course made a full recovery (pic of my post-op head on my 360) and I am fully convinced that without God's help I would never have made it to the hospital that day.

I also feel that there is no way evolution could have possibly lead to our existance, not that I want to start an argument with anybody about that. I do believe in evolution as a form of adaptation to our environment and things like that but I think that creation by a higher power makes more sense to me.

I'll never knock you about the difference in our beliefs or anything but if you'd like to talk more or whatever email me sometime!

we are puny and have no idea how really large the universe could be. i think of us as Whos'. We could be nothing but a tiny speck of lint on some very large being's coat for all we really know.

Because if I did not believe this I would have nothing to look forward to.

If I were on the side of the debate you specify I would try this parlor trick: Everything there is can be divided up into that which we can understand and know, and that which we can't. We call the latter God.