Social Security death record is not listed.?

Question:

Social Security death record is not listed.?

My ancestor died in 1962 and he has no s.s. death record listed on ancestry, or lds, or any other site I've visited. Is it possible that he never had a social security number? He was born in 1899, in the backwoods of southern Kentucky. He worked in the coal mines where they had their own, money and taxes and so forth. Is it possible that both he and his wife were never registered with the department of social security? Thanks in advance, serious answers only please.

Additional Details

3 days ago
His name...was get this: Charley Solomon Seaberry Preston Buchanan, born 1899 in KY/TN border, died December 9th, 1962 in Knox Co. Kentucky. He was a cole miner so I'm thinking it was Warren Camp or Kay Jay, or Indian Creek, KY. Also, they were extremely poor so I'm thinking that services would've been in some shack church and burial would've been without a tombstone, in a cheap pine box, on the side of a mountain...the same would be for his wife; Grace Logan-Buchanan, born 1905 in Knox, KY and died December 17, 1961, in the same area as husband.
Thanks Wendy, and to anyone else reading and interested in helping.

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker: 3 days ago
His name...was get this: Charley Solomon Seaberry Preston Buchanan, born 1899 in KY/TN border, died December 9th, 1962 in Knox Co. Kentucky. He was a cole miner so I'm thinking it was Warren Camp or Kay Jay, or Indian Creek, KY. Also, they were extremely poor so I'm thinking that services would've been in some shack church and burial would've been without a tombstone, in a cheap pine box, on the side of a mountain...the same would be for his wife; Grace Logan-Buchanan, born 1905 in Knox, KY and died December 17, 1961, in the same area as husband.
Thanks Wendy, and to anyone else reading and interested in helping. In Oct 1961 Social Security law changed to allow early retirement at age 62. Typically it takes a bit of time from the point a law changes to the point when it is implmented, but I'm not sure if Carley's would have been eligible or tried within the short 1 year period assuming implemention was implement within the year. Early retirement for women at the age of 62 was permitted since 1956, the same year disability came to be. But there's no indication your ancestor was or was not on disability. FICA had been around since 1937. Did your ancestor file for benefits through the bureau of old age? I don't know you could ask through FOIA, but they would want a SSN. At this time states also ran old age pension funds, as well as probably the Coal Mine itself. My understanding is that even in the early 60's participation was still rather low.

Just a note, Medicare was signed into law by President Johnson July 1965, 3 years after Charley's death.

For tax purposes, your ancestors did not need a SSN to file taxes until 1976, section 6109 of the tax code amended, however, the IRS had allowed the use of the SSN as the Taxpayer ID number since 1962--in 1976 it was codified and required as the only option. Again, this law would have at best been implemented in 1963 most likely.

So did your relative have an SSN, the answer is probably...but you are not looking at the SSN database. You are looking at the SS Death Database. What's the difference, when a person dies, a relative usually the spouse or parent, or child, the Executor if you want a legal term, goes to Social Security and files notice. The benefit is a death benefit, which today was an average of $ 212 in 1961/62. So there was an incentive, but depending on the drive to the city, and the family's feelings they may not have been compelled to make the drive. Further, Charley's executor would have been a child, so his son or daughter may not have had the full and or correct name, birth date, etc as you know it.

Assuming they had SSN's and their executor's did not file for SS death benefit by reporting the deaths, you can find out their SSN application's (SS 5 forms) including an electronic print out sheet by submitting form SSA 771 in writing to Social Security and providing a copy of the death cert's for both. https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps7/efoiassa/i... I'm not sure how long after birth a person is considered dead, if it was in 1999 at his 100th, or in 2009 at his 110th. This is a long wait, I had to wait 6 months, but it was very helpful for what I was looking for. If you file online you do not have to include a copy of death record, but if it's rejected due to the idea they are alive, you'll have to do this in writing with proof. Social Security receives 10's of millions requests a year (mostly from bill collectors), so be patient.

Also, Wendy's advice is good on getting a copy of the death certificate. I always do serious answers, but try to insert a chuckle when I can.
Do you have the exact date? and location? There are some deaths missed, and yours might be one. If you know the funeral home, contact them, and see if you can get copy of his death certificate through them. Most of the certificates I know of, will have the number on there.
OR, come back and edit the question quick while it is fresh, giving his name and date and location. I've missed entries only to have others find it for me (and vice versa). Let me take a stab at it. He was 63 when he died and might not have been drawing social security.

To be on the SSDI, a person was suppose to be drawing social security at the time of death and on their own social security number. For instance my mother isn't on it.
She had a social security number and put into it as she worked at the telephone company for awhile. However, she was drawing off of my father's social security at time of death.

One exception I have found. Elderly people who got Medicaid had to have a social security number. They might not have ever put into social security and were not drawing social security. They are on the list. The dates of death on two I have seen are wrong. My grandfather was born in 1895 and was also a WWI vet before he was required to file for a SSN in 1940. They did not list his full name on the SSN application and this made it more challenging to locate. I feel you may be going through the same challenges I did. Don't give up! Look for other records that may contain his SSN like court records or his death certificate and make a match through that. Good luck. Roots Web has a death index for Kentucky at
http://vitals.rootsweb.com/ky/death/sear...
(They have California and texas, too.)

Charlie and Grace are on it. Grace has a post-em from Tracy McNeight. Tracy might just be a gracious researcher, or she might be a relative. I am not sure if you can actually do this or not but you can contact the SSA (Social Security Administration) and find out from them but you might have to prove how you are related to these two individuals (like it is your grandparents or aunt/uncle)